1) Petition to remove "Soldiers are not Heroes."
2) Soldiers Are Not Heroes
To me, it seems obvious that being a soldier and being deployed doesn't make one an automatic hero. America after the Vietnam War offered the opposite reception to men and women of the military returning home. The populous now seems to have an unstated obligation to welcome with open arms. It also should go without saying that not everyone returning from deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan is a criminal or murderer as is suggested by the Anti-Hero site. Though it does happen, very low are these numbers in fact. Below is a dialogue, a dialectic on the subject. This is something different for Versa Vice, but I think this issue could become a larger one as more and more veterans re-enter the population. Soldiers with opposing views, along with a civilian, are copied directly from the discussion.
Me, on Facebook, on the sites/links above:
Burning the flag is only as un-American as saying you can't burn it. Both are protected acts in America. We have the freedom to be as smart or stupid as we can possibly be. In reference to the Petition to shut down “Soldiers Are Not Heroes:” Petitioning against a site because it challenges your entitlement to automatic "hero status" when you get back from Iraq is also un-American and an act of hubris.
LC (US Soldier) - think some angry firefighter that wasn't getting enough praise, and lost his wife to a soldier returning from iraq made that group. with or without that group, the hero status will be there regardless, so I don't care
Me - That's the problem. I don't think you read what I wrote.
LC - i did but im confused. either way, im going to have a lot of free drinks due to this hero status, as will you, so forget I said anything
DS (US Soldier) - i see it as we're just doin our job..don't really care much about a hero status...
LC - true DS... but whatever gets drinks in my hands and me on the floor by the end of it, will be fine by me :]
RP (US Soldier) - Ugh. I already went through this. Use your common sense when it comes to this crap.
The definition of hero.
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
So who is being arrogant.
TB (US Soldier) - I agree. A lot of the stuff on that board is kind of silly, but I save myself a headache by choosing not to read it. If anything, the 'soldiers are not heroes' group gets more attention *because* of that petition than if it were just ignored. In the end though it is free speech and the 'soldiers are not heroes' group should be allowed to exist regardless of your position on the issue.
RP - Just as it is there freedom of speech to say it shouldnt exist. haha. Isnt that hypocritical?
TB - I think the issue is rather than challenging the beliefs of the group, they're trying to get it shut down completely. Freedom of speech, used to argue against freedom of speech? You're right, it is hypocritical.
"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Me - BTW RP, I just read your definition, I didn't mention arrogance, but you're demonstrating it quite well. Folks - you don't have to be a hero to be a good soldier. It's commendable that you joined the army and were deployed...it's not heroic.
RP - But you did mention hubris. Im not saying im a hero. I am merely saying that your definition of hero is different from others. It is not very clear. Your making a lot of assumptions. And we all know, assuming things can make you look like an asshole. Once again, you are pushing your opinion of what a hero entitles onto other people. Why cant you just let them decide. The definition says, admired for his brave deeds. Isnt joining the army brave?
Me - Society offers too much hero worship. It's a mixed bag, commerials making you feel bad about yourself without certain products, then Hollywood et cetera putting unrealistic figures on the screen and in the media. There's no need to live up to the bullshit. I'm not pushing any of it. Fact is and remains: any clear thinking adult knows soldier = soldier, not hero. This is so rediculous. An argument I never thought I would have.
RP - Why do you keep ignoring the definition. Haha. You wont even acknowledge it. You just think that your interpretation of it should be everyones. Well im sorry to say but it is not. That is ignorant. Should I explain what I mean by arrogant?
Me - You're being arrogant young man! Read your own unsourced definition and you'll see it still remains in the eye of the beholder, a point it seems like you might be trying to make, so why defend with your "definition" your entitlement to heroism. Absurd. Show me the word "soldier" or "entitled." How is the fact that I'm arguing against being an insta-hero, make me the arrogant one? You're out of your fucking mind.
KF (my family) - I'm not in the military, but I would have to say that joining doesn't have to be about bravery. IN fact sometimes it is about cowardice as I have found quite a few people that signed up because a family member was military and they felt they had to. It was easier to kowtow to their father than to stand up for what they really wanted. Also my dad ... Read Morejoined back in the day and it had nothing to do with a moral compass and everything to do with having no direction in life. And since his parents demanded that he make some kind of decision about his role in the world, I can't even say he was brave for making a decision. I am not getting into the argument about the website, as I honestly can see both sides points to a certain extent. But I just couldn't keep my mouth shut about that "Isn't joining the army brave?" line.
RP -Ugh Burkley. The definition came from websters. Im not going to repeat myself over and over. Your arrogant to think that your interpretation is supreme over everyone elses. Why cant you have an open mind and see that point. KF, I was just throwing something out there. We cannot however ignore the fact that someones perception of what a hero is might be as simple as joining the army, or as complex as jumping onto a grenade to save his/her buddies. That is all im trying to say.
LC - how about we are doing what every civilian in the states right now is not. that sets us apart from them, because they don't have it in them, the end. anyways, in someones eyes we are heroes. get over it. I mean, why even be upset or argue about something like that? sure training Iraqi Police is fucking retarded, or PSD for the president of iraq ...
KF - LC someone has to be in the states doing what you are not because otherwise you would not be getting paid. You guys are making "hero" seem very common. I sure hope people have higher expectations out of their heroes than that they joined a group or are doing something that some other people are not doing.
What make's you think you speak for "everyone" RP? I.E. - "your interpretation is supreme over everyone elses."
And I'll say it again, your definition, wherever it came from makes my point. Seriously, take what it says, can you say that it applies to every soldier in our unit? Any soldier in our unit? Cerainly not to every soldier coming home from a deployment.
RP - But that is just the thing we are arguing. What a hero is, is different to every person. Also that is not what LC meant. I guess you just didnt realize it.
Burkley, you choose to ignore what im saying. I already posted the definition of hero. If you dont think they are right. I suggest sending them a complaint? Haha.
a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
I believe that this can be applied to every single person. I think... Read More you are a hero, based on what you have done here in Iraq. I think according to the dictionary definition you can call every single person a hero. That is just my opinion.
LC - I have a giant headache. ill just say it, since apparently everyone thinks they are, with those assumptions being thrown around. everyone in the military is a hero because they show courage you people in the states will never show. I wouldn't be getting paid? I'm hardly fucking getting paid stateside as it is, lady. I made more delivering floral wholesale goods to shops throughout Kansas. Maybe even more or the same delivering pizzas and earning tips. and joining technically doesn't have to be about bravery. yea, sure, it could be the person just was done dealing drugs and needed a job (I). was 30 years old headed nowhere, and needed something to get done in life. wanted a head start. needed college money. wanted to make something of themself. all different reasons, but with the same result. a person joining the military is brave, because it takes a brave person to serve. fuck this. I can't believe I just spent time dealing with this. I have a broken or sprained or simply just hurting pinky toe and a wisdom tooth coming in burkley. but I know there's nothing you can do for me, so I just wanted to tell you that so you can laugh about me being in pain to get your mind off of this retardedness that has taken over our lives the past couple hours.
ME - As I look back at the whole thing, above, I think DS and TB were making the most sense, and nobody paid any attention because it didn't push an emotional button.
KF - LC, so sorry for helping cause your headache. I'm sure you will get many drinks in the states and I hope you enjoy them. I just enjoy thinking and appreciated a conversation on FB for once instead of the standard quizes and games.
LC - shaw always makes sense that's why every time he sees me, I don't even have to say anything and he shakes his head. it's just natural, he knows I'm thinking of something stupid. anyways, thanks for all the fun, I gotta be up at 4 in the morning. adios
Me - Hey KF, thanks BTW, and I apologize, they're not bad guys, we're all just stewing in our juices with little to do, and too much to think about.
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